JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum American Idol contest - when the well connected get greedy

So you all got screwed out of ten bucks. Well it is a learning curve. I do not know how many JPFs entered songs but I think it might have been a few. It would appear that there is not much you can do about it except stop watching the infernal programme and tell your friends to do the same. If enough people stop watching they will have to pull the plug.

Hi Big Jim, I am dying to hear your posts with your scottish accent. lol (I love the accent!) Somehow its not the same just reading the typing. I have relatives in Edinburgh. I have visited Scotland once and loved it. My background is Scottish and Welsh.

Tammy

www.tammyedwards.com
www.myspace.com/tammyedwards1

Hey Tammy. It would be great to meet up with some of the folks face to face. Accents, ages and life styles might be different but we all have one thing in common, a love of music. Coming from a Scottish and Welsh background you are very lucky. Great music is in your blood. You have a talent do not waste it.

My grandad used to say when I was a kid and hurt myself
"If you cannot laugh don't even bother crying." It took a while to understand just what he meant. (He was a simple self taught country man but had a wealth of knowledge and experience)

Aw ra best!!!! (good luck) BIG JIM

I've come to believe the contest was bogus. The first tip-off was the country finalist, "Love Me Til The Lonely's Gone". There is nothing farther than that song from the stated intention of the contest.

Unless, they just chose the best produced songs out of the first hundred. That could explain the results.

I'd think differently if all 20 songs were even obliquely related to the genre and content of a winning Idol song. It doesn't matter to me who wins. It only matters that it's truly fair. And, it doesn't appear that way.

Does anybody know if any of the top 20 songs were actually written and recorded for the contest? Sounds like most of them were recorded prior to the contest for other reasons and just uploaded to the site/contest (probably early on in the uploading). And, the thing that bugs me about that is that thousands of people were spending millions of dollars recording songs specifically for this contest to no avail.

I'll delete this post (eat my words) if a country or rock song wins (or even a song written specifically for this contest). But, I'm betting on straight pop that was recorded long before the contest.

Come on, guys. Why bitter grapes? It is a contest, basically a lottery - each of the 20 finalists were heard at the exact right time by the right person with the right amount of coffee in them with just the right amount of sunlight entering their cubicle. the people who submitted did it the same way as everyone else. i didn't submit because I didn't feel I had anything pertinent. Sure, I wish I did now, but who is to say I would have been heard in that "right" moment? I'm sure great songs were ignored.

Hey - I was on the phone with Kelly C. when she got the call from A.I. - she was doing 80 on the 405 -she was shocked! Stop making it seem like no "real" people got in the 20 - it's just bitter and unfair. No, we don't know if she won - they won't announce to ANYONE until it's on TV - she'll find out the same time as all of us. We were sworn to silence this whole time and had to remain quiet while people on this board and others were insinuating that she was some kind of "insider". She works for her money just like anyone else.

Yes, she wrote and produced her song two years ago - so what.

And why in the world would you want to give A.I. grief about a contest YOU might win next year?!? damned right I'm entering next year if they still offer it. At $10, it's the cheapest game in town for song contests and the payoff could be huge.

So just remember that when YOU get to some level of hopeful success (and I do wish it for all of you) there will be people bitter about YOUR shot.

It's a common spiritual principle to cheer those near you who achieve success, because it's so close to you that YOU could be next. To those who have been objective and have enjoyed the game, congratulations, you're in the on-deck circle. For those disparaging the 20 finalists, WRITE SOMETHING BETTER.

love,

stuart

The online New York Post is reporting that a male songwriting team has won the competition with a ballad entry. Says it comes from sources inside AI. But...who really knows?

Here, here, I second that notion Stuart. Nothing is better than writing a better song for next time.

Seriously, I've got lots of friends in the industry - they have all had some level of success and the way most of them got it, was by making themselves get into the right place at the right time. Guess what happens. You still hang out with them. You get into the same circles and eventually you get noticed too.

Jody

I don't know what bitter grapes are. I don't eat them. I only expected to hear 20 songs that made sense. Regarding the recording costs of the thousands who paid to record for the opportunity, I wasn't including myself in that. I didn't have to pay to do that.

And, if it's true that Kelly Corsino didn't win, I'm surprised. Her song did make sense regarding the theme.

Here, here, I second that notion Stuart. Nothing is better than writing a better song for next time.
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I third that---all the complaining is brutal...Everyone that entered thought they had a great song...so the odds were one in 15 or 25,ooo....Did they hear yours when they were rested or tired??? First or last???? After they heard a GREAT song??? and yours didn't quite reach it's level??? Did your song take a while to get to the hook? Did you sing on key? Who knows, but let it go already...I thought my entry was really good in the lyric contest here the last TWO times...and I didn't even make the second round...It's all VERY subjective...live and learn...don't make it so AI doesn't ever want to do this again!!!

Herbie

If AI made significant money on it (which they did), they have no reason not to do it again!

changeng:

You and fellows like Jody and several others here have commented time and time again, apparently correctly, that the songwriting competition business is subject to all types of human error, bias or just plain luck (A&R guy sipping his freshly brewed java and sunlight enters his cubicle at just the moment your song was playing, etc...) Some have said it's a game of tough standards, no matter what the rules say. Others on this board have gone so far as to say if you don't submit a professional demo, you don't deserve even a chance to be heard. Others have said it's who you know that gets you where you go. If anyone knows, it would be you guys, right?

So, if this is how contests are run, and it probably is, then why didn't American Idol just leave out its invitation to novices (and they DID invite them) to submit rough recordings and why did they use specific language to ASSURE them that it would not be a problem - a good song would show through and they would be able to work their magic on it? Many entrants have come out and said that if they'd known a professional demo was the height of the bar (don't say they should have known because they, after all, were novices) they would not have entered, or they would have spent the money on a studio or singer. Some people said they even left out certain production improvements because they truly believed, according to the AI language, that AI wanted to hear the song without production effects. Even so, NONE of this hindsight negates the fact that American Idol INVITED rough demos.

As good and sensitive human beings who are spiritually principled, why are you so quick to fault your fellow human beings? Why can't you guys, of all people, understand that a vast majority of well-meaning entrants really did believe a rough demo was enough? These are people NOT like you. They are people with little or no knowledge of the music business who, nonetheless, were overtly led to believe in a CHANCE, just like the chance you guys say you want for yourselves and your friends. The only difference is that you guys KNEW it was bogus, and they did not.

Ever heard of a "theorem proof"? You who are trying so hard to defend this contest have proven just the opposite.

I think the money they made here was almost NOTHING compared to the show and the ad revenue and the tour, etc...cmon
25,000 entries x 10 =250,000
This is ONE ad spot---maybe...anyone that says they did this for the money is NUTS. One lawsuit and that's gone several times over.

This is not and was not about the money. Not for the contestants and not for the show. Enough with the money arguments.

"This is ONE ad spot---maybe..."

Nail, meet the hammer. Exactly.

It might seem like a lot of money to the rest of us, but it's chump change to AI. Really.

agate

who is "us people"? I work a dayjob right now and run from the landlord just like the next guy. the rules did say rough demos were fine (if I remember correctly). Every publisher I've ever met says that they can hear a great song through a crap production. And they can't. Not since the 80's at least. Sure, I bet they really, really did hope to find the next "Hey Jude" on a guitar demo - what a wonderful story that would make! And great publicity for them.

Song contests are like a job interview - if you want a job, do you dress is flipflops, shorts and have three days of stink on you? No - you dress nice, comb your hair (if you have any) and present yourself like that. Same with songs. They are your business card. If you really feel it is your business. If it's not, then why get angry if you didn't win?

Honestly, there is a bunch of free software out on the web to record yourself. there are ways of getting a reasonable sounding recording done without spending tons of money. If you're a writer, chances are you have a friend, or know of a place where you can borrow/rent simple equipment to record your song with a guitar and vocal. And then make sure the song sounds appropriate in such a sparse arrangement.

Anyone who sent in a song to AMERICAN IDOL in a simple, poorly recorded form was just asking to be ignored. I'm sorry - that's reality. Regardless of what the rules said.

As far as "faulting fellow human beings", I've had to stay quiet these last few weeks and read stuff on this board and others about how the artists were all industry pros, this was fixed, etc., knowing because of my proximity with Kelly I couldn't speak up and set the record straight. Maybe some of them are, but Kelly works for a living. And she's been making music for a long time and is truly a gifted performer and writer.

Fellow human beings should be thrilled that "one of them" are up for the prize. Is she the only "regular" one? Probably not.

I'm defending nothing but my dear friend's right to win a contest. I'd suggest that you write some truly spectacular songs - your passion in this matter shows me that you probably can.

love,

stuart

p.s. by the way, on the A.I. website you can see the bios of all the 20 contestants. Hit the dropdown box on the "home" button.

changeng:

I appreciate the points you are making. I just wish that for thousands upon thousands of people, American Idol would have been honest and said that production DID matter. They were trusting and I do not fault people for that - people want to believe. Santa Claus isn't dead. But in this case, he wasn't honest.

You said, "Song contests are like a job interview - if you want a job, do you dress is flipflops, shorts and have three days of stink on you? No - you dress nice, comb your hair (if you have any) and present yourself like that. Same with songs. They are your business card. If you really feel it is your business. If it's not, then why get angry if you didn't win?"

Look, for the vast majority of entrants, this songwriting contest was NOT the same as a job interview. In retrospect, it should have been approached that way, despite the boss telling us it wasn't necessary. Still, I don't like the comparison of contest vs. job, because it is flawed. For most of the entrants, songwriting was probably NOT what they would feel is their business, but rather something they thought they might be able to do given the invitation to do it. What drew a lot of people into this contest was the illusion of a dream that you could get lucky and make it big and that you didn't have to be the best-dressed candidate with the best resume - you just needed a great tune that THEY said they would be able to recognize. Conversely, EVERYONE has been to a job interview and everyone knows that game. And very few of us think of landing a job in the same way as landing a #1 hit on American Idol. One is a 100% daily reality, the other is a next-to-nothing dream chance of winning big. It's human nature and AI took advantage of it. We learned something that you (and probably Kelly) already knew.

Now...I'm off to write that spectacular song.

Just announced on AI

This Is My Now

Winner

Let me hear one great song that was entered, that has poor production and I'll gladly retract my thoughts. It has to be great, not good, not okay, but great - super fantastic.

Yes, continue writing, that's a step in the right direction.

Jody

No, it *is* a job interview, in my opinion. And one should approach it the same way (my opinion, again). You put your best foot forward. If you know they're expecting professional demos with full instrumentation, and are going to reject anything that isn't, then the question *you* have to ask is, "Well, do I want to win?" If you do, you give 'em what they want. If you don't want to give them what they want, don't enter--you'll be wasting your money.

As a city manager, I conduct a lot of job interviews. There's a "dance" me and the applicants have to go through that's very similar to what you had to do in this contest. I expect my applicants to show up clean, in a suit (or equivalent), have a well-designed resume that is free of grammatical errors and misspellings (and *no* "texting); they'll sit up straight, avoid profanity and "Bubbaisms," and be on time if not early. Now, they will probably never wear a suit again in my presence, but I will have a use for all those other skills if they go to work for me. But one of the things I want to know is whether they wanted the job enough to learn the steps to the "dance."

I approached A.I. and approach other contests the same way.

Would I enter again if they do this again? (I do think it's a foregone conclusion that they'll do this again.) Well, I'm not going to go write a song specifically for the contest, any more than I did this time--I don't work that way. If I have something in the Catalog that I think will fit, of course I'll go get it recorded professionally and enter it. Might even evaluate songs, as they pop out of whatever Great Beyond they pop out of, to see if each one might be The One that gets sent to American Idol next year. Got a year to think about it, after all.

Joe

All I can say is: I told you so. That is the song I predicted to win in an early post. I must say that Jordin sang it best and I predict her to win the title. It just wasn't a song suited for Blake. The song is awesome! I will say that. But on the other side of the coin I will stand my ground that I feel this was TOTALLY unfair and billed incorrectly to the rest of us unsigned indies. The songwriter is a signed artist out of Nashville, He has written over 14 #1 hits. We were deceived because I feel in my heart and always will, that if you have a resume card filled like that you are a PRO. This contest SHOULD be for the songwriters who have never had a cut. Let's see if we can change that rule people. If we don't like how it was done. Let's get the rules changed. I think that should be the way it is done. It was handled really quite sneaky. For those of you who are miffed,I am right there with you. You have a right to be. I will NEVER change my mind on this. The song is truly great. But the contest was handled oh so VERY wrong!

Tammy

www.tammyedwards.com
www.myspace.com/tammyedwards1

Tammy

I type this about 20 minutes after the Tuesday night AI show ended. Jordan did a nice job on the songwriter's contest winner "This is my now" and apparently the meaning of the song really got to her at the end. She almost didn't finish the last phrase because she was tearing up. That pretty much aced it for her. She will be the next American Idol. Blake did not connect with the song at all- too bad cause I guy sang it on the demo.

Jordan Sparks is going to be a great artist. I had heard the song "This is my now" a dozen times or more and though her start was a little weak and she didn't seem too comfortable with the chorus the first time around, by the end of the song, she took it out of orbit- really much different and much better than the original and her vocal was beautiful.

Hey everybody-

I haven't been on the board. There was a fire at my neighbor's house and three of them were killed last Thursday. SO I've been involved in other things. But I watched tonight. And I still don't think "This is My Now" is that good. I guess I just don't get it.

But Tammy, you are right. This contest was not as it was represented. And I am not going the road of false humility about how poor production killed over 24,980 other songs' chances. Let's be realistic.

I won't be entering any songs in any contests as of now. Not because of sour grapes. But because my time would be better spent writing something unique and getting it out on CD Baby with the rest of those who are getting some return for their efforts.

I am glad they are going to start a band contest. Hopefully, with the band performing original work, NOT performing established bands' songs.

Keep writing, everyone, because you love to. And no other reason. That way you make every day count. Any recognition will come in some manner, or not.

After my neighbors and friends losing their lives, one was only 15, this all seems somewhat trivial to me. At least, tonight.

Greta

For those of you who are questioning the connections thing, click on this link http://www.wespreadtheword.net/musicnewsarticles/ktarver3.html

Here you will find that the winner Scott Krippayne happened to have penned the title song for the American Idol Junior winner.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm imagine that? What a coinkidink! Check it out. There you have it folks, the answer to the million dollar question. They have known about him all along. Anyone want a refund??

Tammy

Oh my gosh Greta, I am so very sorry!! I really am. That does make everything else here REALLY trivial. Our thoughts are prayers are with you and the families. God bless!

Tammy

Blake's rendition of the song was extremely weak, IMO. My favorite from the first auditions was Jordin, and she blew away Blake with her performance. I hope to see her win May 23rd. She deserves to be the next Idol.

Thank you, Tammy.

I think I'll get some sleep now. Everyone take care.

Greta

Dear Joe Wrabek...

What contest are YOU talking about?

Anyway, after this contest was announced, was anyone from this board urging and mentoring potential entrants to submit NOTHING LESS THAN a professional demo for this contest? It would have been a great service. Seriously, did Ande or Brian or anyone else guide people on this? It seems a lot of people here know a lot of things that could have helped people make better decisions. The number one piece of advice would have been: Don't believe the rules!

And Greta, yes, that is very sad news, if not the best reality check in the world for remembering what's really important.

Ag, thanks for the vote of confidence (I think), but remember, I am not a professional--I only play one on stage. I'm not about to tell anybody what they should do--I will only say what I did, and why. Yes, I think the "send us anything, no matter how poorly presented" thing is one rule that ought to be ignored, and I do ignore it--but I don't have a lot to base that judgment on. I have yet to win a contest that entailed sending somebody a demo.

That said, I did enter a song contest this year (not A.I.'s) where I ignored the "send us anything" rule (a lot of people say that) and submitted them a very well-produced demo. I think the song I sent them is a good match for what they're looking for (much better than what I sent A.I.), and we'll see whether I win (I'll know in about a month). If I do--or if I come close--I will consider myself vindicated. If not, then I'll still be guessing.

Know? I don't know. I am only guessing--and I ain't been in this business long enough to be qualified to mentor anybody. But I would think the "put your best foot forward if you want to win" idea would have occurred to everybody anyway.

Joe

Dear fellow songwriters,
Didn't it say in the A.I. rules that you could not be affiliated in any way with the network or A.I.? I thought I read that because I know someone whose brother works for Freemantle and I was worried it might cause a problem. The winner had already worked with A.I. and now I'm confused. If it also didn't state in the rules that A.I. has the right to change the rules at any time, they could be held legally liable for misrepresentation. (If indeed, I am remembering the rules correctly) In any event, this seems quite unethical to me.

However, for the record, I want to share with you the ONE thing that got me over my not getting my song in the top 20. Want to hear some advice I was given by someone we all know and love? Good. Hear it is....

I asked someone on these boards to listen to my A.I. submission and tell me honestly if he thought my song was good enough to be in the top 20. He responded by stating, "Yes, your song is good enough to be in the top 20. But, you need to be better than just good enough."

That advice was given to me by Brian Austin Whitney. It totally got me looking at where I am and where I want to be. It just rocked my universe! Something just clicked into place. I began reaching for that next level as a songwriter. I feel I'm even in that next zone with the new songs I've been writing. Plus, I just started taking Harriet Schock's course and I am loving it. I may even post a thread about it.

So, this A.I. thing did some wonderful things for me. It got me writing songs again. It led me to this site and to all of you. It led me to Brian's words of wisdom, which was a turning point for me, and it led me to Harriet. As far as I see it, I won a huge prize by entering that contest.

Greta, dear one, you have experienced a tragedy that I have also witnessed only one year ago. A friend of mine died in a fire after her grandson was playing with matches. It is devastating from any perspective. At times like this, my only comfort comes from faith in a higher power and in the knowledge that we are spiritual beings and not just this earthly flesh. May you also find strength at this time to assist those who need your love and support.

Always,
Heidi

OK , I've got to add a little more about our American Idol family. On another site where quite a bit of digging has been done, another stone uncovered. Apparently there is a songwriter who wrote a song for AI 2006 finalist Elliot Yamin. On his myspace Scott Krippayne logs on to congratulate him on his great new song for another Idol. You see, they all know each other. They are a small knit family. I know I know,... you all think I am just complaining non stop. But the deal is... how does the little guy break into the circle??? How can we when they allow MAJOR writers into the contest. If the last link doesn't wake you up I don't know what will.

Tammy

www.tammyedwards.com

Thanks for the information, Tamera. It's interesting to see how this plays out.

___________________________________________________________________________
www.myspace.com/hangcat

I agree with Tammy on many of her points. I am a Christian songwriter who specifically wrote my first "secular" song for Idol. (BTW--here is the link to "HERO" I would love some honest critique. The production level isn't great, thought it would be fine as per the AI contest rules)

Hero

But if you go back to the contest, not only did they say it was OK to submit "rough" (non-pro) demo, they ENCOURAGED it!! They over and over again said not to worry about the production end. That they can hear a good song and would work their magic. I enter song contests frequently and have won 3 awards recently. I have about 7 of my catalogue "pro-recorded". The others are just recorded here at my home (fair quality but no production). For each of my three wins, they were the ones that were professionally recorded. But I submitted "Hero" without recording in the studio 'cause I wrote it just for Idol and didn't have time to go to the studio. I did pay my piano player a good chunk of change to play keyboards. But Tammy is right. It's not sour grapes here. It's just that I do think you have to be on the inside and I just simply don't know how to do that. I think they knew all along a demo that wasn't dazzling was not gonna get chosen. I too, picked "This Is My Now" as the winner. Fantastic production. Very good song, IMHO, but not outstanding. Part of the song is a dead ringer for Chris Tomlin's "How Great Is Our God". Notes are exact in one part of song. But now we know, so it's up to us to sharpen our game if your going to submit next year. (The official AI website is already accepting email addresses to notify you of the contest.) But just keep in mind, that no matter what, it's their contest and they can and will do anything they want with it. That's showbiz!

Thompson, I am kind of in your camp about this. Nothing really discouraged me about the AI songwriting contest. I am upgrading my recording equipment, will spend more time as a composer and arranger for my songs and not stay content with the simple guitar/vocals I have been doing.

And when it comes time to enter another contest, I will only submit a song that is ready to be played on the radio and if that means someone else has to record it, that is what I will pay for.

Thanks to everyone,

It's this compassion that you have shown that reflects the core of what you are as artists. And you are artists. You take inanimate objects, musical instruments,computers, software,along with your voice and speak through songs for the masses.

I would like to mention that I was struck by the fact that Ryan Seacrest brushed through the introduction of the songwriters out there in the audience. Almost as if he were trying to get past it quickly. As many spots as they have aired concerning the singing contestants, you would think they would have given the winning songwriters a bit more time. Had it been some grandmother from Iowa, perhaps they would have afforded the winner a chance to say SOMETHING. He just mentioned the song earlier in the show, in passing almost. Stood them up later, like a relative at a wedding that he had to acknowledge, but was not drawing any more attention to than was absolutely necessary.

Just an observation.

Greta

Were all the 30000 songs so bad that they had to pick a recognised pro writer (Scott Krippayne) with previous AI links as the winner. I wonder just how and when he entered. Was his entry in with the mix or placed on top of the pile. More and more of my previous suggestions and predictions that foul play is afoot are becoming a reality.

It seems that some of you think that the winning song was great and deserving of being the winner. I disagree. When I was listening to it with captioning, I had difficulty understanding what it was all about. I'll wager that if Harriet Schock were critiquing it she would find it to be lacking in substance. Frank V.

First off, Greta, my condolences on your recent loss. I'm sure it does put a lot of this Monday Morning Quarterbacking into perspective...

Having said that, I would like to chime in on the "that's Showbiz" side of the street. It appears that those most negatively vocal about the contest are those who had been encouraged by many (and rightly so) to consider that they could have been real contenders, and then weren't. I am certainly not denying anyone's right to be disappointed or angry or whatever...I just think we have to look at the whole process as "lesson learned." Sure, AI may have been less than forthright on every detail of the rules; yeah, maybe many of the finalists were well-connected and/or already-established musicians. But who here besides me (and maybe a handful of others) had NEVER written a song before? Or submitted it to a recording company or had a CD out already? So in that regard, you can continue debating the definition of "amateur" status ad infinitum.

Anyway, maybe because this was my first time out of the shoot that I can afford to be so cavalier. I HAD NOTHING TO LOSE, have hooked up with you folks, have received a lot of constructive feedback, and I look forward to upping my game for next year -- or for some other venue.

I apologize if I sound harsh...but I firmly believe that when one door closes, another door opens. My plan is to try to figure out why the door closed to begin with, then walk through the open door a wiser and more enthused "musician".

So everyone, hold your heads high, take one last glance over your shoulder, and move on....

Respectfully,
Gem

I think I feel what you all are saying about Scott Krippayne. I've followed his career a bit, since I'm also a Christian writer. Big Jim, I agree with you - just how bad were the 30,000 songs that someone of Scott's caliber ended up in the top 20?

No sour grapes here, just a legit question.

Well, I think it's a good song, not great. As far as the 30,000 songs that they received, (it's been reported 40,000) my take is that they never listened to much more than a few hundred. As Tammy and others have pointed out, this really is about "who" you know and I think there are too many coincidences with the Idol connections. I do believe the song was "winner-worthy" (maybe one or two others) but I believe AI knew what to look for or should I say who to look for when the songs came in. That's why they never gave the songwriting contest that much attention. I totally agree with Greta. I mean I am a faithful watcher, have been since Season 2, and I couldn't believe that when the voting was over, NOTHING was mentioned. They never said on the show on May 8th, "remember this is the last day to cast your votes for the songwriting contest". Nothing! But it's OK. It truly was a shot in the dark and I think it made us more aware for the next time if anyone chooses to enter again. I totally agree with Samuel Harris. Don't enter anything that isn't "radio ready". That is the biggest thing that I am taking from this whole experience. I was very naive. My husband (a musician) told me they would never "fix up" a song that was entered like was stated on their songwriting part of the website. He said they don't have the time to do that and more importantly the pro songwriters will have their submissions "radio-ready". And he was right! I think we need to start investing more resources into our careers. It is hard to shell out the big money for a studio. But I do think that is what they are looking for and other contests as well. Despite what we heard over and over, they do NOT want anything rough and they aren't going to "work their magic". If you think you have a great song, then take the time and money and get the pro-recording done (and production, if possible). I know I am going to!
BTW--
Still looking for critiques on my song HERO when any of you get the time....thanks!

Hero

Hey-

When all's said and done, if the entries were to be radio-ready, why do we need these contests? Technology has made it possible to take your time, invest in reasonable recording devices, learn essential effects and mixing, and turn out your own "radio-ready" CD. As Brian posted, the CD Baby's, Soundclick's, MySpace's, etc. can get your songs out there. If they evoke recognition through sales over the net, then you can get what you probably wanted from AI. Recognition and financial compensation for your efforts.

As many of us who have offered our tracks on this board, for critique, are really wanting someone to say "Wow! Great!"
But, realistically, I think everyone here who has written songs HAS to think their's is the best, if it was their best effort.

You're not going to get the ultimate recognition from anyone who is doing the same thing you are attempting. Get some tracks ready and copyright them. Get them on something like CD Baby, and see what, if anything, they REALLY do. Then you can start to judge whether your work should go beyond the recognition of those around you like your family, friends.

I'm learning about the recording process and am enjoying the logistics of working my first song to be done right.

thanks,
Greta

My husband just sent me a link to USA today's review of American Idol last night and the winning song. Wow, they were harsh....but as far as the "type" of song, whether it was more suited for one or the other finalist? No question on that one. A very cool (and talented, imho) Blake did not know what to do with this and Jordin aced it. Very interesting...

http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2007-05-22-idol-analysis_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

Isn't everyone forgetting that one of the top 20 songs selected was kelly's "One night" and that it was just a piano/vocal with a few vocal deliverly problems. someone must have been looking beyond the production; and unless kelly is somehow connected to AI, then at least one song was chosen because of it's raw merit and potential. I happen to think that if that song had a second verse and Jordan was singing it, it would be better that "This is my now" which by the way sounded a lot better on the mp3 file than it did live last night. Jordan finally got the song together in the second half and took it to a new place but the session guys playing with her could not duplicate the music on the original. And the original song had processors on the vocal for several syllables creating a sound which cannot be sung by the human voice; for instance, the word "now" is shaped by software to make it sound slightly otherworldly.

it does not bode well for next years contest that the winning song came across so limp last night. If it had been the killer song the AI producers were hoping for then they would not be thinking twice about having the contest next year.

When Jordan wins (is that tonight?) and if she sings that song again- and if the session guys get their act together to make it sound great- then maybe the AI producers will have a contest next year.

They should have a longer submission period, maybe have a little sideline show about the selection process to show the public what is happening and to ensure the songwriter's that they are listening. However, if they make it this high profile, then you better bet there will be 200,000 submissions next year.

The best way to look at this is positively- just think this years show delivered 4 or 5 new artist to us to pitch to and Kelly now has a chance to get her song on Jordan's first album.

If you're talking about the song, "Tonight" by Kelly Corsino? It definitely is not just piano/vocal. It is full production. Piano, drums, strings, cello, enhanced vocals. Pretty song, well crafted, but a little sweet for me. Awesome that she made the top 20 but this is not a "simply recorded" number. It is as it should be. Well done.

I think they meant the other Kelley....who was Kelley Hill..
it was basically just a piano/vocal recording...which made the final top 20....Kudos to her for managing to get picked..amongst a sea of pro's.........Terry Moore..

I was talking about a song called "One Night" and it definately was not a full production. Kelly Hill is the writer I believe. Her husband has posted on this forum. The song has a shooting star that "falls right where you are". Does that ring a bell?

Congrats to Tammy for nailing which song would win. I liked the song, but the chorus line didn't really connect with me as it obviously did with voters. But it was a worthy song and certainly better than any of the songs that have been chosen after Kelly's year 1 song. I said a while back on one of our posts that Tammy is a fantastic screener in our awards process, and this simply confirms that. I felt one of the other songs would have been a better choice, but often it's not the best song that wins, but a great song that reaches the masses, even with flaws that purists might pick out. I do remember saying that the winning song grew on your more and more each time you listened to it and that it was a hit. I am glad to see another songwriter reach success and 19 other writers/teams have one of their biggest successes to date. Next time around, we all have a target to shoot for in the next round of submissions and in our writing in general. And those of you who wrote songs for this, now have another song in your quiver. If you handle all this right, it's a great thing. If you have sour grapes and look to blame others, I doubt you have a rosy future in the music industry. Better than you remain a hobbyist where you don't have to worry about what others think or say or do.

Congrats again to the 2 Kelly's who have been posting and emailing folks here. Another wonderful feather in your caps!

Brian

Ahhh Christine you just brought back fond memories of sitting outside on the pavement at 5 A.M in front of Equity on a rainy morning!!! I'll bet were we in line together at some point.
(the fond memories thing is a joke for those of you who may not know!)

I personally, thought the winning song was OK, not amazing. Jordin can make anything sound great and the big note she banged out at the end was the icing on the cake. It doesn't even come close to Kelly Clarkson's tune "A moment like this"...that song still gives me goosebumps...Jordin WILL be a big star, I believe...as will Blake...Melinda is going to have to do the right things to stay in the public eye, that will be interesting to watch.

As far as sour grapes go, I think we all just have to chalk up the lessons that we have learned, and move forward...I have learned hard lessons here through years of hanging out---and the biggest one is that anyone who works full time at a real job is NOT going to be able to compete with people who devote 100% of their time to their music. If I can put say 6 or 8 hours a week into my music, and someone fulltime puts say 40-50 in---I fall behind them more and more and more every day...It is impossble to do two things to the amazing degree that it takes to make it in anything these days.

Even people with amazing talent have to work their butts off...Networking, recording, learning, collaborating, shmoozing >>>until they are in right place at the right time (if ever) I have stopped fooling myself...I can build a small following in my home town and I can have a little fun...but I'm never going to be anybody in the music business...that's just the way it is
The little guy just can't break into the big boys club if he's not around the club and hanging out with the members. The odds are a billion to one. Oddly, you'd think this would be a sad thought---but actually it is calming and gives a proper perspective to the situation...one that has taken the frustration out of it for me by knowing my place.

Herbie

Well Herbie, it's a job when it comes down to it. If you want your job to be music, that is what you have to do. If you want your job to be banking, you're not going to play banker by working a 3 hour shift as a teller each week and expect to become bank president.

It's the old problem of Art versus Commerce. They aren't the same thing. Commerce couldn't and shouldn't care about art. It's irrelevant. I assure you that there's some guy out there who makes beautiful custom hammers much nicer than what you find at the local Sears store. But they cost a lot more, they don't fit on the shelf and he can't make enough of them to fill the warehouse. And people who go to Sears for a hammer, want a hammer. They don't care if it has inlaid pearl or a hand crafted leather handle wrap. Usable, generic, cheap hammers is what they want. Music is a product when you desire to use it in commerce. It needs to look good, feel good, sound good to the widest possible masses to work commercially. Anyone who laments that commercial music sucks shouldn't bother to pursue commercial success because it indicates you don't even understand what it all is.

Now a few artists can master both the art and the commercial aspects and bring them together to most people's liking. Those folks become superstars and legends. But few people can get either the art or the commerce side right, let alone both at the same time. And as Herbie has mentioned, you're making it very tough if you want to try and do the difficult by only doing it a few hours a week and without putting out a competitive product. The analogy of going to a job interview in cut off shorts, a stained t-shirt and bad breath is a good one. Why would they hire you? Sure, you may be a great bank teller, but you're not giving them much reason to find that out if you don't look and act the part. There's too many other equally qualified candidates who DO make it easy for them.. and they, as they should, get the opportunities.

I know people with "day" jobs would put out product as good as any major label act. But they won't become that elusive "thing" without putting all their time and energy into it. Most people don't want to give up their entire life, including their kids and spouses and friends to pursue music 100% of the time. That's perfectly understandable and fine. But don't criticize those who give up all other things in life to pursue it when they find success and you don't. If you do, that's neither fair nor realistic. Pursuing this is hard work and a LOT of sacrifices.. many sacrifices that most of us aren't willing to make. Until you make the same sacrifices, or find a better way to do something that most everyone else wants to do, then accept you've made different life choices and be happy with them. Still write great (and better) songs and make great (and better) recordings. Have fun and share your music. But stop expecting to phone it in a few hours a week and become a rockstar. It won't happen.

Brian